Secret Swap

[Vash]

This is an idea that myself and HNC have been thinking about for awhile now. Several others have joined in agreement with us on this idea. As a v3-4 player, I know what pre-secret swap TPPC and post-secret swap TPPC trading look like comparatively. HNC was awesome enough to put these thoughts we've been bouncing around into one big post for all to look over. It's quite a bit, but it needs a lot of explaining, especially for those who haven't been around when secret swap wasn't here. We are more than happy to answer any questions that are raised. My initial reasoning for bringing this up with HNC in the first place was thinking of when trading used to be more fun because pokes weren't just able to be so readily accessed like they are in SS. Everyone would get on when the promo would chnage and we'd all get ours and race to see who could evolve it first. Maybe I'm living in the past, but those times when pokes were traded for personal preference and level instead of just level made trading so much more fun, and I wish to try to convey that to those who haven't had that experience that it was definitely a good one, one that's good enough to petition this idea about secret swap..

HNC Typings
If you disagree with me, post your idea, not your flames about how I dont know what I'm talking about or yadda yadda. If I am wrong about this, then so be it. But I dont wanna hear whining because this is an issue that I think will make the RPG better for old and new players ALIKE.

Before we get into this, I would like to first say..
1.) I appreciate all of you who actually take the time to read this

2.) definitely have mad respect for the tppc community and staff alike. im not trying to change the face of the game, just another thread about an idea is all <33 just sum time put into it :)

3.) I would like to have to finally have a good thread about this. So I brought up some of the rules that no one ever takes the time to read, but they should be enforced so i gotta promote it ;)

Originally posted by Darkheart

Lately, I've been growing tired of the attitudes and conduct of some of the users in this forum.
I hope that you can read this, realize what you're doing, and try to stop doing it.

First off, simply posting 'no' or 'yes' to an idea without saying why does not help anyone.
If you back up your thought with reasoning, it is much more useful and makes you come off a lot better.
An addition to this?
It is NOT acceptable to come in here simply to call other people "lazy" or accuse them of things or call them names.
If you don't like an idea because it makes TPPC "too easy" then state that and explain.
If you don't like an idea for another reason, explain.
Don't come in here just accusing people and slinging names around.

Also, behave yourselves, honestly.
Lately there have been some of you that have been doing nothing but starting flamewars, baiting each other, patronizing each other, and being otherwise

hostile, rude, and acting in ways that are uncalled for just because you don't agree with something someone posted. I don't care if it's your idea, or if

you're someone replying to someone elses idea. Do it respectfully, do it logically, and DON'T POST if you can't say anything decent. Bans can and will be put

into place if the flaming and namecalling gets out of hand, and at the least, I will lock or delete all or most of the offending thread.

If you can't keep it civil keep it off TPPC.



Most of my friends on tppc that I have convos with have been here far longer than me. I love hearing about what I haven't seen before..and some of those conversations, as of late, I have been hearing about v3/4 without SS (Secret Swap). Shiny and Dark Pokemon ALIKE have value.

We suggest Normal Pokemon (almost all pokemon, including nonswaps like Cranidos etc etc) be the only thing allowed swapped. The amount for a swap can be the same price, but a cleaner format would be having normals swapped for what you want, and S/D's becoming another kind of poke rate (giving middle ground for new players to aspire towards).





Some questions I thought of and other friends came up with..



Who's been thinking SS sux? I don't..why fix something not broken?
so my perspective is this. not everyone has the time to train. not everyone enjoys the x system. not everyone can be happy. but one can try. and my proposal will give new players new ways of moving up the ranks.

It won't happen overnight, but eventually S/D pokes will have individual values, and be "middle ground", as I would call it, between the x system and new players. even if a S/D rates smaller than a 1k (rates 500 or 600), thats something much more accomplishable than 1x or 2x in an early career and will lead to less people wanting to AA or cheat their way to valuable pokes

I think the golds are a HUGE part of this game, and S/D are as common nowadays as normals. S/Ds should be something special (probably my opinion, but its arguable)



What happens to the use of money?
Lets face it. Beyond SS, the next most useful use for cash is Buy/Sell. Should this change take place money would have at least a bit of a renewed use because it'll actually be worth it to buy a shiny/dark pokemon that gets sold.


We're not removing SS, just making less swaps available right
S/D swaps are now the nonswaps essentially. Normals are swaps now.



The whole "making rare" idea, some people like me have 5000+ swaps stashed, what about that?
This part is hard to answer for some people that DONT have that kinda swap storage goin on. I never said rare. Most of them probably won't go for more than a lvl 500. Which why it makes it so reasonable. Some people have thousands in storage accounts. My proposal is to make them rated according to popularity, not just by quantity. Ultimately, the shiny/dark pokes will take on their own values just as everything else does based upon demand for them. The demand will just look different from person to person since trading would be based more on what pokes people want rather than an "x" system that's only based on levels.



Now that some of them are going to be removed, will there be another way to obtain them?
This is where the promos come into play. Promos won't be just HOARDED when they are SAnoriths or DSnorunts or something. Now they are always looked forward to.



How is this exactly going to help new players, especially with people stashing them away as we speak.
Giving them a means of a middle ground between nothing and the 'x' system.



Around when do you want this idea put into place?
There's not really a set time, we just want to see the community's response. Because who knows, maybe us and a few other users are the only ones that think this >.>







- We would love to answer any questions regarding why this is a legitimate argument (and with your consent, post your question and my answer on this topic).

- We also would love for anyone that supports this to (if there is room) throw up this link in their siggies with the title ("Secret Swap Movement") or something like that, just to get word about it. If this is highly rejected, then we'll move our hinds back to trades and forget about it completely. just didnt want all these points going unnoticed.

[Decieve]

I liked it. Very descriptive. 10/10

[aaron6712]

nice job, good idea!!! i liked it 10/10

[Artemis Huntress]

Good Job, although I think you should add that promos should not be old s/d swaps otherwise the middle ground for new players is virtually destroyed.

[HNC]

I liked it. Very descriptive. 10/10

nice job, good idea!!! i liked it 10/10

thank you very much for ur time readin :)

Good Job, although I think you should add that promos should not be old s/d swaps otherwise the middle ground for new players is virtually destroyed.

thanks, and i see what ur trying to bring up with that fact, bc then they will be worth less. BUT im skeptical to see that if a old s/d swap was a promo then it would destroy a value of a poke in the thousands. with the promo usually defaulted at a lvl 5 ditto, i dont think we need to worry too much about it being a swap, considering this wouldnt be able to go for midlvls for a bit of time.

i see what ur saying though tear :) and thanks for ur time.

[Shiny Metagross]

I really like the concept of middle ground for new players, but the value of Shiny/ Darks will still be quite low, and not close enough to the middle ground that you are talking about.
|----------|------------------------------------------------|
(normal)---(S/D)--------------------------------------------(Goldens)
see what I mean? those poor noobs would have to convince ppl with goldens to do some serious down grading. If this idea passes, past S/D swaps would probably be rated like non-swaps(100+ level), which many ppl, including myself don't really expect. In addition, S/D training pokemon will probably be rated more, since they are now unob.
So, in my opinion, getting rid of SS would just make Swaps more expensive for noobs, and would not change the rate among serious players for quite some time.

I really like the idea of a TPPC revolution like this, but it probably won't happen
6/10 for effort and theory

[Vash]

I really like the concept of middle ground for new players, but the value of Shiny/ Darks will still be quite low, and not close enough to the middle ground that you are talking about.
|----------|------------------------------------------------|
(normal)---(S/D)--------------------------------------------(Goldens)
see what I mean? those poor noobs would have to convince ppl with goldens to do some serious down grading. If this idea passes, past S/D swaps would probably be rated like non-swaps(100+ level), which many ppl, including myself don't really expect. In addition, S/D training pokemon will probably be rated more, since they are now unob.
So, in my opinion, getting rid of SS would just make Swaps more expensive for noobs, and would not change the rate among serious players for quite some time.

I really like the idea of a TPPC revolution like this, but it probably won't happen
6/10 for effort and theory

I understand what you're saying, and we didn't really expect it to immediately create a solid middle ground, but the longer SS was gone the more the values of pokes would start to sort themselves out and people would begin trading on more of a what they want idea rather than just the level system there is now. It'd be an ongoing process but it was the same way (but opposite) when SS first came out. One of the first things I swapped for was a S.Crobat, and there was a trainer that LOVED Crobats and I got a good deal for it because everyone was still trading for what they wanted. Granted, at that time you could only swap once a day total, but the concept is the same. I just know it to be more fun when people are going for what they want and aren't just so caught up in the 'x' system. The 'x' system instead would slowly vanish and the "what people want" system would come back.
Either way thanks for reading and commenting! We really appreciate it!

[HNC]

I really like the concept of middle ground for new players, but the value of Shiny/ Darks will still be quite low, and not close enough to the middle ground that you are talking about.
|----------|------------------------------------------------|
(normal)---(S/D)--------------------------------------------(Goldens)
see what I mean? those poor noobs would have to convince ppl with goldens to do some serious down grading. If this idea passes, past S/D swaps would probably be rated like non-swaps(100+ level), which many ppl, including myself don't really expect. In addition, S/D training pokemon will probably be rated more, since they are now unob.
So, in my opinion, getting rid of SS would just make Swaps more expensive for noobs, and would not change the rate among serious players for quite some time.

I really like the idea of a TPPC revolution like this, but it probably won't happen
6/10 for effort and theory

finally a lengthy reply :)
preciate ur time on this. furreal.
i know its next to nothing. maybe nothing. but its something. its better than s/d swaps BEING THE SAME as normals right?
i know its goin to take time. maybe too long. but it'll happen

what im tryin to get as is ur opinion is well respected, and i see what ur saying, but what im assuming ur saying is that it wont make a difference or wont happen. I gotta say, its better than nothing. right?

[Fading]

I think that the idea itself is interesting, but I don't think that it's bound to happen. Those people with the 10,000 Shiny/Dark Swaps (If this idea was put into motion) would regulate the "values" on them, therefore jacking up the value to an astronomical amount. Once that happened, there would be no "middle ground" that you're looking to accomplish.

[Vash]

I think that the idea itself is interesting, but I don't think that it's bound to happen. Those people with the 10,000 Shiny/Dark Swaps (If this idea was put into motion) would regulate the "values" on them, therefore jacking up the value to an astronomical amount. Once that happened, there would be no "middle ground" that you're looking to accomplish.

I would agree with you there, but that's why we see it as a process. Those people will quit, slowly trade them out, etc. Over time they would become dispersed, but naturally it'd take time.
Thank you very much for the input. We know this is a long shot, but if we didn't feel it would ultimately be for the better we wouldn't even bother trying.

[Ekhart]

I must say this is nice idea :) though one thing - what about TS S.Snorlaxes? Will they be kept or changed to normal ones?

And I rate it 9/10. Why 9? Because sometimes I use secretswap to get something turned to s/d version.

[DarkRex]

I must say this is nice idea :) though one thing - what about TS S.Snorlaxes? Will they be kept or changed to normal ones?

And I rate it 9/10. Why 9? Because sometimes I use secretswap to get something turned to s/d version.

Not all S/D's are going to be worth the same , so if they do stay then I don't think It's be much of a big deal.

I like the idea.

But for most people swaps are worthless and I doubt there going to change their mind about trading for them even if there worth a level 500 or w/e there going to be 'rated'.

Personally I'd be one of those people that doesn't really care about trading for them , and it would be hard for the new players that want to trade them but can't because nobody wants them.

Although I hope this does work out.

[Vash]

I must say this is nice idea :) though one thing - what about TS S.Snorlaxes? Will they be kept or changed to normal ones?

And I rate it 9/10. Why 9? Because sometimes I use secretswap to get something turned to s/d version.

Yes, that's understandable. Secret swap is currently a part of the game and therefore people are accustomed to using it/it being here.
As far as the Snorlaxes and things like that, I personally would like to see them go or maybe just changed to normals as you mentioned, however for details such as those, should this actually go through, it'd ultimately be up to the mods for things like that.
Thanks for reading all that! And mentioning the Snorlaxes, I totally forgot about those!

[Vash]

Not all S/D's are going to be worth the same , so if they do stay then I don't think It's be much of a big deal.

I like the idea.

But for most people swaps are worthless and I doubt there going to change their mind about trading for them even if there worth a level 500 or w/e there going to be 'rated'.

Personally I'd be one of those people that doesn't really care about trading for them , and it would be hard for the new players that want to trade them but can't because nobody wants them.

Although I hope this does work out.

Thanks for your support bud. I understand how most people won't care to trade for them at first, but I see it like just reversing the effect of when SS frist got here. People traded for swapped things, now after some time of SS being out they don't. As time goes by should SS disappear, it'd work the opposite: people won't trade for "swapped" things much at first, but over some time they would begin to.

[Anidamaru]

10/10, i actually like the idea when s/d pokes worth something instead of garbage that no one cares what poke is it, but it's level

[Shiny Metagross]

S/D swaps will probably never be worth anything, since theres plenty of them to go around. Besides, if they ever go up in value, it would only help the ppl who have them. The reason why they used to be worth something is because they were difficult to get, which is no longer the case. Also, ppl DO trade for personal preferance. Look at my signature. I collected the Vulpix cause I like 'em. not because they are valuable. The reason why some pokemon are traded because of greater value is because they can in turn be traded for something else that the trainer wants.

My suggestion would be to limit SS to once a day like it apparently used to be. That way, the rates would rise slightly, but also, noone can over-rate them, since they are still obtainable, long-term or not.

[Jassie]

I would agree with you there, but that's why we see it as a process. Those people will quit, slowly trade them out, etc. Over time they would become dispersed, but naturally it'd take time.
Thank you very much for the input. We know this is a long shot, but if we didn't feel it would ultimately be for the better we wouldn't even bother trying.

Most people with the stashes have either already quit or most likely dont plan on quitting anytime soon.And the people who are actually trading them(as Fading pointed out) will want astronomical amounts for them, people will pay, then they will want a profit on them, and it would keep continuing like this until it dies down and people decide they dont want them.So in the long run it would only help a few people make a quick profit.

However it would be a nice idea if over half the people on TC didnt only care about increasing the value of their boxes.

[Sublimestorm]

I like this idea, 10/10.... =] I want this to be implemented in v8 D:

[Verb]

I would like to be a Scizor Master :D
10/10.

[DaC]

I like this idea, since this also incorporates the concept of trading more for what you like and gives value to your beloved <insert S/D swap here> collection. However, I don't think that the hypothetical situation of S/D swaps becoming a "middle ground" for beginners is going to really work...for instance, until recently people started out with level 4 starters that were worth about a level 300, but that usually didn't get newbies very far. Lastly, keep in mind that these "previously swaps" would be unobtainable to any new players unless they start trading, so this actually lowers their accessibility to S/D Pokemon.

btw don't take those criticisms personally, I have a lot of respect for both of you guys...just wanted to play Devil's Advocate to help you guys smooth out this idea. It's a nice concept, keep up the good work ^_^

[Shiny Metagross]

S/D unob can serve as a midle ground for now right? Besides, the swaps wouldn't rate more anyway

[Vash]

I like this idea, since this also incorporates the concept of trading more for what you like and gives value to your beloved <insert S/D swap here> collection. However, I don't think that the hypothetical situation of S/D swaps becoming a "middle ground" for beginners is going to really work...for instance, until recently people started out with level 4 starters that were worth about a level 300, but that usually didn't get newbies very far. Lastly, keep in mind that these "previously swaps" would be unobtainable to any new players unless they start trading, so this actually lowers their accessibility to S/D Pokemon.

btw don't take those criticisms personally, I have a lot of respect for both of you guys...just wanted to play Devil's Advocate to help you guys smooth out this idea. It's a nice concept, keep up the good work ^_^

Haha no problem. We're looking way down the road. Or HNC is, I'm looking back at how things used to be. So the middle ground I believe would happen.. but yes it could be awhile. Thanks for the support!

Sublimestorm and Verb - Thank you both for your support as well :)

Shiny Metagross - They do in a way, and swaps won't rate more anytime soon, but the long SS is gone the more they will begin to. It's how ratings work on every poke out there right now; ratings change in relation to demand and availability. If pokes can't just be obtained through SS anymore, they will start to go up after time.

[Cuerpanokings]

wow i really like this idea. its very well thought of and well explained and makes sense. i give it a 10/10

[HNC]

wow i really like this idea. its very well thought of and well explained and makes sense. i give it a 10/10

mucho appreciated opinion :)



if anyone has any questions, id be happy to answer in the thread :D

[MiniWade]

As much as i like this idea.


It might not go through.


Many people in this RPG are stashed with S/D swaps, once they become non swaps those people with quantity of them will be flooding the trades with there swaps.

I rate your idea 10/10, but do not think it will go through.

There might be a possibility that there are going to be begging and spamming for people wanting it.

As well as people stocking up right now.

So i still rate it 10, but people are already stocking up, so they might not go through with it.

They would if many people did not stash there accounts with them.

[Kife]

No matter how much I've also enjoyed the version 3 and 4 days, there is no way we can go back to the rating scheme we had back then. I know what you mean by changing the swaps so only certain non-swap Pokemon that are already rare in existence can be swapped, but that just doesn't work out too well as we're already years into using the Secret Swap system. I just don't see us ever going back to the old rating system we had even with a complete overhaul of the current Secret Swap system.